Re: Biztalk Bug schema locator when host file used for server redi

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I am not totally sure - but if what are you saying is - if I have a schema
mechanism that i use in other services - can I reuse that same service in
BizTalk and not put my schemas in assemblies - the answer is no - you have
to put the schemas you want BizTalk to use inside of BizTalk assemblies.
Can you also have them in the other location - yes.

Essentially in that scenerio - you have to have your schemas out on your
network - and compiled into BizTalk assemblies.

--
Jon Flanders
http://www.masteringbiztalk.com/blogs/jon/

"shawnk" <shawnk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:834E5547-86D6-4389-B827-2B75CB73B1CC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Jon,
>
> Thanks so much for your response.
>
> I knew that, and its a good way to go. I like the packaging of two
> messages and their
> transform (map) in a single assembly. I like the runtime engine of
> Biztalk to validate
> based on the transformer assembly.
>
> Our concern, however, is to deliver a the message architecture in a
> 'real' environment.
> To do this we are using message patterns that provide 100% testable
> SOA streams.
>
> In other words every message instance MUST contain a
> <xsi:schemalocation> locator to find
> the schema on some XML namespace schema server. Note that in a
> production enviroment you
> can randomly 'spot check' messages in the corporate message streams
> in
> the same way factories
> 'spot check' parts on the assembly line. (PS. I know about
> schemaLocation as a 'hint').
>
> In the case of SOA you can grab every 100th, 1000th or
> 10000th message and just validate it as a random check of message
> integrity with the same
> 'mean time to failure' intentions (not statistical results) of modern
> manufacturing plants.
> Some trading partner SOA streams must be 100% valid (in addition to
> security requirements).
> Some integrity solutions use spot checking of messages.
>
> This is literally impossible with Biztalk for reasons/bugs posted in
> other posts in this forum.
>
> I need the schema <import>, <include> and instance
> <xsi:schemaLocation> (using Hosts file)
> to work when I hit the 'validate Schema' and 'Validate Instance'
> buttons in VS.NET/Biztalk
> DURING DEVELOPMENT TIME (not runtime where the validate ref point is
> internal to transformer).
>
> BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WORK IN BIZTALK/VS.NET I CAN'T USE BIZTALK TO
> MEET
> OUR CLIENTS REQUIREMENTS.
>
> I am not going to deliver a 'Biztalk project' that is untestable. In
> other words my design
> is using <import> <include> <schemLocation> and when 'tested' in
> Biztalk it fails. In BEA,
> IBM, SUN, XMLspy the same design pattern works.
>
> Now I could be wrong (which is why this post is here) but the message
> design pattern is good.
>
> I have a (1) XML namespace server decoupling
> development/production/location via the Host file.
> This allows IT operations and development operations to be adaptable.
> Using the same message
> schemas on a LOCAL LAN or on a GLOBAL WAN.
>
> I have (2) schema
> reuse via <import> and <include> that uses the decoupled hosts. Now
> several software development
> workshops (around the globe) can use the same message catalog in
> development and production
> on their own local servers (via the Hosts file).
>
> Separate from the IT operational and project development issues lets
> just return to a simple
> 'single guy evaluation' of Biztalk 2004 server (my personal favorite
> :-).
>
> During development, when I validate the schema (*.xsd) and instance
> documents (*.xml) I
> have other tools that (besides VS.NET/Biztalk) that I use to design,
> edit and test message designs.
>
> Biztalk currently prevents me from using these other tools. I was
> just
> at a Microsoft Tech
> event last Thursday in which several of us discussed this very
> (serious) limitation.
> Here is an example.
>
> In 'shaking down' Biztalk and evaluating it. I want to be able to
> validate and verify schemas
> with XMLspy. To do so I want to put the <xsi:schemalocation> in the
> message instance and
> use XMLspy to validate the message using an XML name server.
>
> XMLSpy will validate my message design that adhears to '100% valid'
> SOA stream quality.
> (each message has a <xsi:schemaLocation> attribute ). So will all the
> other tools I use.
>
> Biztalk, however, does not let me use this design as follows. When I
> try to 'validate' the
> schema the <import> statement fails for the reasons given in this
> (and
> other) post(s).
> In addition when I use Biztalk to validate the instance of the
> message
> the validation fails
> on Biztalk but works on all the other SOA compatible tools and
> technologies.
>
> If the message lifecycle only existed in Biztalk I could use the
> non-valid message design.
>
> Unfortunately ALL messages will have a lifecycle outside Biztalk.
> Most
> (if not in all our
> deliverables) seek to have 100% valid SOA streams. Just like any
> factory we want 100% 'good parts'
> that are testable as a standard requirement.
>
> Sorry for the length here but I want to clearly communicate the need
> to the Biztalk design/test
> team as they have been so helpful (and professional) in previous
> posts.
>
> To summarize Biztalk 2004 does not support an important class of
> message patterns used to
> insure (1) IT operations decoupling/adaptability and (2) corporate
> SOA
> stream quality.
>
> I agree with you and like (very much as a matter of fact) the biztalk
> validation reference
> point to be centered in the transformer assembly
> (*.xsd,*.xslt,*.xsd).
> Its a beautiful and
> robust design. Like all engineers I just more :-)
>
> I need (1) to be able to VALIDATE AT DEVELOPMENT TIME schemas and
> instances in VS.NET/Biztalk that support the
> HOSTS/IMPORT/INCLUDE class of design patterns.
>
> Remember that (1) above allows me to deliver a TESTABLE solution with
> Biztalk.
>
> TESTABLE in development.
>
> TESTABLE in production.
>
> Right now, for these message patterns, Biztalk solutions are not
> testable.
>
> Furthermore Biztalk prevents testable message streams
> from existing in the system because we can't test at development
> time.
>
> Note that when I say TEST I mean that several components and tools
> will be involved in test.
> I do not want system testing to depend on just one test tool as a
> potential single point of
> failure.
>
> Thank for your patience with this brief disertation on testable SOA
> stream message patterns
> using HOSTS/IMPORT/INCLUDE mechanims to improve the quality and
> robust
> nature of corporate
> information flow.
>
> shawnk
>
> PS. Jon thank you, again for your input, you are right. I just can't
> use Biztalk for this message design pattern.
>
>
> "Jon Flanders[MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Shawn - BizTalk doesn't use the schemaLocation attribute in that way
>> (AFAIK) - it only loads schemas which are "BizTalk Schemas" - Schemas
>> which
>> have been built into a BizTalk assembly and deployed. (Some
>> circumstances
>> when they aren't deployed as well - but they always have to be part of a
>> BizTalk assembly)
>>
>> --
>> Jon Flanders
>> http://www.masteringbiztalk.com/blogs/jon/
>>
>> "shawnk" <shawnk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:922D9B51-A99D-4392-8EA3-4B914A28A8ED@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >I think the following is a bug.
>> >
>> > Given
>> > (1) a schema instance document with
>> > (2) the schema locator (<xsi:schemaLocation>) using
>> > (3) a server name in the Hosts file
>> >
>> > we have a schema locator statement as;
>> >
>> > ....
>> > xsi:schemaLocation="http://My_server/My_nsp";
>> > http://My_server/My_nsp/The_imported_schema.xsd"; >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > The Hosts file has the entry;
>> >
>> > 192.168.1.20 My_server # NETBIOS alias name of the LAN XML
>> > namespace
>> > server of XML schemas
>> >
>> > As far as I know the use of the Hosts file as a schema relocation and
>> > alias
>> > mechanism is valid.
>> >
>> > Is this true? If so this is a bug.
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for any response.
>> >
>> > shawnk
>>
>>
>>


.



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